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Madsen: End of Year Update on Investigation

Fri Dec 31, 2004 at 02:52:17 PM PDT

Madsen: End of Year Update on Investigation
I just recieved e-mail from Wayne Madsen:

[Excerpts]

"...clearer picture of how this Election Fraud 04 was done is beginning to emerge...

You see, the more the Bushes fire additional government insiders, the more stuff is leaked to me about this election fraud. This smoking gun is...the election voting machine companies (all run by extreme right-wing [Dominionist], "End Timers") conspired with the homeland security and other database firms -- all conveniently located in FL, OH, and TX -- to rig the vote.

"...Elections that close with millions of people voting have never happened before in our nation's history..."

"Not only this last election but several previous ones were "fixed" by a dangerous group of right-wing [Dominionists] who dominate the election machine industry and various GOP Secretary of State and congressional offices. They (known as "The Fellowship" ) have been planning this coup for a very long time but now that their "man" is in the White House they are not about to leave through a fair electoral process."

(full letter below)

[JamBoi note: The raw version was very dense and hard to find the most salient points, so I've done a lot of bolding and underlining (and occasional spell correcting and punctuating :-) ). My edits are in square brackets. The only other editorial bias I have added is to alter the misleading phrase '"dominionist" Christian' to simply Dominionist, since these people have nothing to do with Jesus.]
From: [Wayne Madsen]
Date:    Fri, 31 Dec 2004 17:27:11 EST

Subject:    End of Year Update on Investigation

To: [JamBoi]   

Here is an update of where the investigation is heading -- many strings must be tied together but a clearer picture of how this Election Fraud 04 was done is beginning to emerge. The follow the money trail is leading to some interesting places.

(JamBoi edit note. There's a picture here -- I'll have to figure out if I can load it somehow -- )

Kay Stephenson, CEO of Datamaxx (she looks like her, but it's not Laura Bush)

She is close to both Jeb Bush and Colin Powell. Powell has visited her a number of times in Tallahassee.

Before Datamaxx was formed, its contracts were about to go to Seisint, a Tampa company allegedly tied to mob money.  It operates Accurint, and was recently bought out by Lexis.

Interesting note is that Datamaxx uses Accurint for its database. Datamaxx has made a killing in law enforcement/homeland security contracts after 911.

-- Now people will wonder what this has to do with the election fraud. Here it is in a nutshell. These people, along with ChoicePoint of Dallas, TX, are personal data miners. And Datamaxx is tied to Ohio law enforcement data bases and communications.

Where did the Katherine Harris get the info to throw all those African American voters off the rolls in 2000 in Florida? Public and commercial database records, everything from DMV files to education and insurance records. They red lined poor African American and working class white districts just like credit card and mortgage companies do. And how did they know where to put only 2 voting machines in polling places in Ohio for use by over 3000 voters? Same process. They red lined those districts and knew where to put the Election Day squeeze on.

Fundie churches with names like the Abundant Love Tabernacle and Fellowship Worship Center were great places to pull off this fraud with Blackwell's election officials conspiring with local fundie preachers. (Just a thought, if we have separation of church and state in this country, why the hell do we permit voting to take place in churches, especially where the preachers and lay leaders are corrupt and in on the fix?) Al Gore visited a Buddhist temple in California once and the right wing wanted him impeached!!

Datamaxx has Homeland Security contracts in Ohio, Florida, Iowa and West Virginia. In Ohio, they can send out homeland security alerts using computer networks and wireless PDAs. Guess what? All were swing states and in Warren County, Ohio an unofficial  "threat" was "transmitted" to Election Board HQ on Nov. 2. FBI and police said it wasn't them. Well, maybe it was Datamaxx using their retired FBI agents and cops (who were in cahoots with the fundies, Rapps of Triad, O'Dell at Diebold, Ahmanson and McCarthy Group of ES&S, and Blackwell and Taft GOP political machines in Columbus).

As for Seisint, where do they do most of their work? Boca Raton, Florida and Orlando, Florida. Boca is in good old Palm Beach County, where absentee ballots turned up missing before election day. And Orlando -- home of good ole Rep. Tom Feeney, chief touch screen vote rigging suspect and Yang lobbyist, as well as FL Secretary of State Glenda Hood (fitting name), former Mayor of Orlando. And Seisint's new corporate parent is based where? Lexis-Nexis is in Dayton, OHIO.

You see, the more the Bushes fire additional government insiders, the more stuff is leaked to me about this election fraud. This smoking gun is just a bit different than 2000. Instead of disenfranchising over 90,000 black voters in FL by calling them "felons" (and using ChoicePoint data base to do it), this time, the election voting machine companies (all run by extreme right-wing [Dominionist], "End Timers") conspired with the homeland security and other database firms -- all conveniently located in FL, OH, and TX -- to rig the vote.

Researchers should keep focusing on Yang, Seisint, Datamaxx, Accurint, Lexis-Nexis, Triad Government Systems, Diebold, Global Election System, Hart InterCivic, DBT Online and ChoicePoint.

The jury is still out on Affiliated Computer Systems (ACS) of Dallas, but a certain Stephen Goldsmith, former GOP Mayor of Indianapolis, may be into some dirty business there involving red lining districts with high college student voting population (Indiana, home of several large universities, may have had its vote "hacked" as well). Gary Webb was investigating ACS and contract fraud in CA when he committed suicide on Dec. 10.

We also know that Florida DOT investigator Ray Lemme committed suicide in 2003 when he was investigating fraud involving Yang and the FL state government. House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Executive Director John Millis committed suicide in 2000 when he was investigating CIA ties toLatin American drug cartels, links that involved the Bush family. State Dept. Iraq intelligence analyst John Kokal committed suicide in late 2003 after he questioned the attack on Iraq. Former CIA official Dr Gus Weiss committed suicide after he, too, questioned the attack on Iraq in late 2003. Dr David Kelly of Britain's MOD committed suicide after he questioned the validity of Iraq WMD reports. Danny Casolaro committed suicide in 1991 after he investigated Bush ties to weapons smuggling and drug deals. Paul Wilcher, a friend of Sarah McClendon, died in his apartment after he picked up on some of Casolaro's research. Charles Ruff and HPSCI's ranking member Julian Dixon dropped dead only weeks apart after being briefed by Millis on CIA-Bush-drug connection.

What was Gary Condit, also of HPSCI, briefed on by Millis? What did Condit tell his friend Chandra Levy, an intern for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Or what did he ask her to find out for him through her Bureau contacts? John F Kennedy Jr was working on a Bush-CIA-covert ops story for his George Magazine when his plane crashed. And what did poor Lori Klausutis discover before her body was discovered in Jan. 2001 in the FL office of GOP Congressman Joe Scarborough (the MSNBC colleague of someone who has made it his cause to rip apart my reporting on this election story)? Cliff Baxter, chief Enron witness for the govt. shot himself before he testified. John Tower had the goods on the Bushes, but his commuter plane crashed and killed him, his daughter and several other passengers. Paul Wellstone and his family and staff? Mel Carnahan? Bush biographer JH Hatfield? Athan Gibbs, the founder of TruVote International, the only clean election  machine company. And the list goes on and on. At least those who are merely being fired -- the latest being the Pentagon's Jack Shaw, are getting the easier "treatment" from the Bush Mafia.

There were also anomalous Governor's Elections in Washington and Puerto Rico, where Democrats, expected to win handily, just squeaked through by a fraction of a percent. This is an indication of vote fixing a la FL in 2000 and Ohio, Iowa, NM in 2004. Elections that close with millions of people voting have never happened before in our nation's history.

Not only this last election but several previous ones were "fixed" by a dangerous group of right-wing ["Dominionists"] who dominate the election machine industry and various GOP Secretary of State and congressional offices.

They (known as "The Fellowship" ) have been planning this coup for a very long time but now that their "man" is in the White House they are not about to leave through a fair electoral process.

The Fellowship has some very unsavory founders -- all pro-Nazis: Abraham Vereide, Frank Buchman, and Gustav Gedat, J. Edgar Hoover and James Jesus Angleton were close to the Fellowship.

The use of prison ex-cons like Marion "JR" Horn in KY, John Elder and Jeffrey Dean in WA, and others in the financing and carrying out of the rigging, was mostly arranged through Chuck Colson's Prison Fellowship Ministries, an organization that has carte blanche access to anyone deemed of value, epecially computer programmers, after their incarceration and upon their release, especially if they promise service in return for parole.

It also helps that the Fellowship has established strong links to corrupt African governments via fundie missionaries. Guess who's largely behind the Nigerian scams to secretly move dirty oil money from oil-rich Nigeria (and Equatorial Guinea and Angola) into the funding corrupt election manipulators and Enron/Halliburton/AES scams? Some of those "419 emails" have been discovered by US intelligence to contain coded instructions to the money launderers and financial manipulators in the States and in off shore bank havens like the Bahamas and Tortola. The Nigerian scammers operate from the southern Christian south of the country (Lagos and the Niger River Delta) and are in league with fundie Church missions there and in the States.

The Fellowship is now trying to take over government boards in my county of Arlington, VA and are making a major power play in Annapolis, MD. Tom Feeney, Ashcroft, DeLay, Bush (Dubya and Jeb), Cheney, Sean O'Keefe, Condi Rice, John Bolton, Ed Meese, [Charles] Colson, Brownback, Ralph Reed, Frank Wolf, Ernie Fletcher, Katherine Harris, [Newt] Gingrich, JC Watts, Burr, Jindal, Lamar Smith, Zach Wamp, Scalia, Ensign, Kyl, [Kenneth]Blackwell, Bob Ehrlich, Karl Rove, Jack Kemp, James Baker, Clarence Thomas, Tom Coburn, Asa and Tim Hutchinson, Gens. Boykin and Myers, DeMint, Curt Weldon, Grover Norquist, George Allen, [Rick] Santorum, are all in this group. The late Lee Atwater was close to this group.

The Fellowship, which has strong links to the "Rev." Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, operates in cells and not only takes over governments but also local church congregations to further their goals. Two local congegations taken over by the Fellowship are Falls Church Episcopal and Cherrydale Baptist. They also maintain the private Riverdell School, another way to brainwash young children who are not already being brainwashed by home schooling.

The Prime Minister of Norway has just been outed as a member of this group. In fact, most of the so-called "Coalition of the Willing" nations' leaders are members of The Fellowship, e.g., Tonga, Macedonia, Palau, Netherlands, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Solomon Islands, Uganda, Rwanda, Guatemala, El Salvador, Denmark, Romania, Iceland, Fiji, Georgia, Colombia, possibly also Howard of Australia and Blair of Britain.

The Fellowship believes that ANYTHING is permitted in order to bring about a 1000-yr Kingdom of Christ on Earth, and that includes stealing elections and even murder.

Some of the money used by the Fellowship to obtain real estate and maintain their group came from Saudi Arabia through lucrative defense contracts and pass throughs like the Islamic Institute.

There are links between the Fellowship and other northern Virginia groups  In their group homes in Arlington it is obvious they keep the troubled teens of GOP big businessmen and politicians out of sight through a combination of intensive Bible study and "drug treatement." Noelle Bush may have been one of their "Guests/Victims." There should be a focus on Infinity Software of Tallahassee, the place Noelle was put to work when she was busted for trying to illegally obtain prescription drugs in 2002. The Arlington VA Fellowship homes caused a stir in 2003 when one young resident broke into 4 homes in the neighborhood to steal prescription drugs. What is it that these young men and women are afraid of by doing anything to get their hands on Xanax and Valium? One of my neighbors said the teens appear to be unusually "expressionless" for people their age.

One of the really unplesant things about the Fellowship is that they have an international "Youth Corps," so these people don't appear to want to go out of business any time soon. This Youth Corps has a presence in almost every country, from Bhutan to Zambia and Brazil to Albania.

Infinity, like Datamaxx, has contracts with the FL Dept. of Law Enforcement and Dept of Education. FL state auditors chastised Gov. Jeb Bush and his administration for paying Infinity $7.5 million to set up a Web site and do another, much smaller, job in a no-bid contract. Infinity's owner, Tom Lynch, is a big Bush supporter who gave money to the governor's reelection campaign - $500 to Bush in 2002 and $1,000 to the Republican Party in 2001. Also seems that Infinity's contract had a nice little cut out for another company -- Ignite! of Houston, TX -- headed by Bush's brother Neil (of Silverado S&L criminal infamy).

I am getting great support from a number of people inside and outside the government who believe this group must be "outed" and dealt with as any other dangerous cult would be. These are not Jim Jones' followers or Marshall Applewhite's Heavens' Gate people we're talking about. These Fellowship people want to take us all with them. The earthquake and tsunami in the Indian Ocean is just what these people are waiting for -- the more death and destruction the better as far as they are concerned. I suggest we all work together and not against one another to expose these people. Those who hide behind the veil of "non-partisanship" should just keep quiet if they are not going to join the effort. We all have enough to do without incessant carping from those who believe it is wiser to sit on the sidelines. A re-read of William Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" may be in order for those who believe neutrality and non-partisanship is the better course. As the son of a WW II refugee from the Nazis, I can tell you that neutrality in times such as these just does not work and is definitely not advised.

Wayne Madsen

31 Dec 04

Let's hope 05 brings us more answers and some indictments of these bad actors!

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  •  Gutsy post - we need help folks! (none / 0)

    Spread the word.

    Research these new people and entities for anything and everything.

    We have very little time.  Please help.

    John

  •  if fraud did happen then rewards must be HUGE (none / 0)

    for someone to step forward with the info.

    Is 10 mils enough? or is it 25 mils?

    Folks, recounts won't do nothing if the machines were built/fixed to report certain numbers. Just like any computers, a machine can be programmed to switch to a default condition when turned on.

    and don't hope that a senator will object, they won't. Kerry is thinking about 2008 so he won't do it. Others won't do it because they are afraid of being ridiculed as morons, sore losers etc...

    Rewards, must be huge.

  •  The only line that jumped out at me (none / 1)

    "Elections that close with millions of people voting have never happened before in our nation's history."

    That is so true.  Divided a nation as we are, having millions of people vote in a state only to have the difference be a few hundred or a few thousand votes is a red flag.

  •  better to stick to the election fraud (none / 0)

    I don't think we are going to get very far if we chalk up every bad thing that's happened over the last decade to "The Fellowship." Seriously--we are supposed to believe that the leaders of more than a dozen countries in the world belong to some GOP/evangelical cult? I don't think so.

    On the other hand, the vote-rigging and other forms of electoral fraud sound very plausible to me. The key is that a small number of corporations, all with GOP ties, have way too much influence over everything in our electoral process, from maintaining voter rolls to counting votes.

    John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."

    by desmoinesdem on Fri Dec 31, 2004 at 03:24:13 PM PDT

    •  The ring of ... (none / 1)

      Start with Skull and Bones is fun. Add I'm so rich I don't have to grow up and God just so obviously made the world for me!. Yes, it would be childish to mount a conspiracy of this scope. Yes, Bush is childish. And the "Rev." Moon does end up getting a degree of respect from people in high places that makes no sense at all.

      All a conspiracy really is is an In Group with a shared sense of a boundary beyond which certain secrets are not to be told. The Mafia/Cosa Nostra/whatever their real name is was one such - united by Southern Italian heritage and shared business interests. The Chinese Tongs are another variant. Any civilization around for long enough (Roman, Chinese) evolves business/political interest groups which aren't differentiable from organized crime groups; it all depends on your perspective and whether you're in or out of the group. The original meaning of "privilege" is "private law," i.e. outside it. It is a constant theme of Bush's presidency that he is outside the law.

      This isn't to say that I believe in the Fellowship - or not. The evidence is way short so far. But the Christian churches are exactly where evil would lurk, if it were looking for the best place to hide and gain strength - tax free and under maximum moral cover.

  •  Reading this thread... (none / 0)

    reminds me of The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson. Can't say why exactly but there it is.
  •  I don't care where this leads (none / 0)

    It is all going to come out one way or another, and Bush and his pals should watch out.
  •  Man. . . (none / 0)

    I don't know if I can get enough tin foil together for this one!

    Sure are a lot of accidental suicide deaths around these people.  Guess just keep following the smoke and see if we can find a fire.

  •  Far far far right (none / 1)

    Hi all and Happy New Year! Let's hope 2005 will actually bring some happiness to the world, which sorely needs it.

    Anyways, I don't know if Mr. Madsen reads this board or if you, JamBoi, forward messages to him from time to time, but here's a curious thing or two, in very brief format:

    1. Like DataMaxx, Kay Stephenson also runs SmartCOP -- George Kay Stephenson, that is. But SmartCOP, AKA Consolidated Technology Services, is also in Florida, also in the Big Brother biz through law enforcement agencies, also big in the Homeland Security biz, and in fact seems nearly identical to DataMaxx. But look at the Board of Directors, would ya? Kemp, William Bennett, and RFK, Jr.!!, among others. I just find it all an odd little coincidence, but an interesting one, too.

    2. Is Maurice Blackwell, the pedophile priest who was shot by one of his victims, any relation to J. Kenneth Blackwell? They exhibit an eerie resemblance. That may be neither here nor there, but again, it's interesting to me. (I've searched and searched to find out JKB's family tree to little avail).

    3. White Hat Management of Akron (http://www.whitehatmgmt.com/presskit_bio_brennan.htm). David L. Brennan is big into the homeschooling/vouchers programs that Blackwell is behind. They're also big into tech. Akron is a hub of far far far far religious right activity. WHM earlier this year put together a program in... Florida!

    Here's an EXTREMELY eye-opening link for ya:

    http://watch.pair.com/charter8.html

    1.  Blackwell's a Mason, on CFR, and in ("on"?) the Heritage Foundation, among other conservative think tanks. He was a UN ambassador and has a CV a mile long. Yet really, he's just a local politician. How'd this guy get so connected so fast? He's still pretty young and you wouldn't normally think a kid from Cincy, from nowhere, really, would have become so entrenched in the highest echelons of the conservative intellectual infrastructure. And he's very very into tech. Hmmmmm...

    2. Blackwell ran Steve Forbes' campaign and worked with W. on his daddy's campaign, as well as officially endorsed W. in 2000. How'd a former Cincy mayor get so in with the Bushes?

    http://www.cincypost.com/news/black022400.html

    6. DataMaxx was incorporated in Ohio on Feb 5, 2001:

    http://serform2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/porthope/DEV.SAP_RPT_BUS_FILING_DET.SHOW?p_arg_names=charter_num &p_arg_values=1211015

    SmartCOP was incorporated in Ohio on August 9, 2004:

    http://serform2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/porthope/DEV.SAP_RPT_BUS_INFORMATION_SQL.show

    Just some tidbits to start out the new year...

  •  so many "suicides"! (none / 0)

    With all those "suicides" of people who were involved in trying to expose things this group is up to, isn't Wayne Madsen afraid they're going to target him since he's gone public with this stuff?
  •  I can't believe you all are taking this seriously (none / 1)

    Look, anyone can say anything, and write it down, and that does not make it true.  I don't trust this Madsen guy one bit.  He seems like he's just out to get attention for himself.  His stories are outlandish.

    Jamboi has been posting Madsen's stuff for weeks now.  No one else posts it, because it requires a full roll of tin foil just to read.

    Please, let us remember our critical thinking skills.  All this reads worse than a UFO site.  Madsen changes his story every week, and he does not have any real evidence for anything he says.

    There is plenty to worry about with plain old voter supression, Blackwell obstructing a proper recount, and so forth.  We don't need these wild stories with little grounding in fact, to make our concerns about the election look like a fool's errand.

    In fact, all this Madsen stuff just damages our case.  

    "I don't want to name names, but they know themselves." Koffi Annan

    by Sue in NH on Fri Dec 31, 2004 at 07:28:39 PM PDT

    •  As Madsen says in the above letter if you don't (none / 1)

      believe it don't read it.
    •  Also note that Kerry and Conyers are getting these (none / 0)

      reports.  So they can act or not act as they see fit.  As for the rest of us its true that we need to get out and rally this next week.  This is what Madsen urges also.  That is something we can all agree on.  Happy Near Year's all!

      JamBoi

    •  Agreed. (none / 0)

      There are some salient points about the Dominionists and their ties to the voting companies and their desire to take over the US government, which have been noted and written about elsewhere by reputable people, but those points are mixed in with a bunch of conspiracy crap, including "mysterious suicides" when we "all" know they were murdered.

      Madsen has discredited himself with this nonsense.

      •  I strongly object (none / 0)

        A complicated web of relationships between various evil people and entities cannot be discussed properly or explained rationally in a few short sentences.  It's impossible - which means one must write a long narrative, the type that some people look upon as "nuts."

        For the record...

        Wayne Madsen is a well-known writer.
        Former NSA.
        Lives right amongst all sorts of bad dudes in VA.

        Everyone with a brain knows that fraud took place.  Most are concentrating on specific instances.  Wayne on the other hand is going after the big enchilada - the entire right-wing/fundies/Moonies/neo-con alliance.

        I strongly recommend that if anyone out there has no idea just how involved all these people are with each other, GO HERE, SCROLL DOWN ONE CLICK, AND LOOK AT THE DIAGRAM "Roadmap from Hell."

        Roadmap from Hell

        And please note that this was merely an initial effort by a single individual to diagram the complex web.

        Wayne is on our side.  He's doing his best to wade through a lot of disinformation and prove these complex ties.

        John

      •  Actually Madsen broke the Dominionist connection. (none / 0)

        He along with some others who are working on it. So he gets full credit for that (you seem to be trying to marginalize his contribution to this work).  He is a contemporary and friend of many of those "suicides" and when he writes about that he's writing about his friends.  He believes BuschCo are murderous thugs mixed up with essentially mobster types.  Madsen's theories will either stand or fall with time, and no naysayers prematurely calling them "discredited" based on their ignorance will change that.  He's put his whole career and life on the line for this, so I'm going to give him the time of day to listen to what he has to say.  If you don't care for it, don't listen -- simple.  Madsen is fuly "reputable".  Sorry to disappoint you. Happy New Year!

        ttys,

        JamBoi

    •  What could be any more strange than Moon? (none / 0)

      What could be any more strange than what Sun Myung Moon is doing in Washington D.C.?  Talk about your UFO mothership, yet it is all true and well-documented. He is drawing in followers which include the highest levels of government! If Moon can basically announce that he is replacing Christ, and people within the Religious Right believe him, is it not also possible that some could alter the democratic process to conform to the will of their "God"?  
  •  How To Attack Something Like This? (none / 0)

    Assuming Madden isn't either a fake and/or a nut, and that this stuff is more or less true, how can something like this ever be brought down?

    My guess is that you'd have to have something like a scene out of the Godfather where right-wing Dominionist crazies are simply gunned down all over the world one afternoon.  Any other approach and they will gang up on and murder/discredit the investigator.

    This shit is too weird.

  •  JamBoi, you asked (none / 0)

    about this a couple of weeks ago on another DK thread. I mentioned that I thought perhaps I'd inspired Mr. Madsen to look into this area further during that Q&A on DU and you wanted a link. Here's the two posts, and I'll put the link after that.

    kk897 (456 posts)    
    Sun Nov-28-04 11:44 PM
    Response to Original message

    163. Question about Extreme Right Wing involvement?

    I'm really sorry to do this... I already asked upthread, but it seemed like maybe my question got skipped. That's okay... just want to know if you've read it, at least. Here it is again:

    Mr. Madsen, have you investigated the involvement of the extremist wingers such as the Sovereign Citizens movement in this election?

    I think that the largest contributor to Ohio's 2004 GOP campaigns, David Brennan, and his White Hat Management (manages charter schools and homeschool programs, HQ in Akron) company, had a hand in election fraud. According to watchdog groups, Sovereign Citizens are working toward gaining a foothold in County governments (the highest level of government they acknowledge), including the strategy of getting appointments to Boards of Elections and County Commissioners' offices. They also often impersonate various kinds of enforcement agents in order to intimidate people. When you follow the money, it leads up to the likes of Hudson Institute and Amway. There's also a connection to Kenneth Blackwell.

    I detail some of this in the thread I put below... I've been looking further, on my own, since DUers didn't seem particularly interested,but I do want to bring it to someone's attention. Just in case.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... [NOTE: this link no longer works as I discovered today, Jan 1, 2005]

    Take care, and thank you so much for your courage and work.

    ------------------------

    Casolaro (51 posts)    
    Mon Nov-29-04 12:05 AM
    Response to Reply #163

    216. Amway

    I have not looked into that but Amway, Unification Church, Hudson, Coors, Olin, Scaife and all those kooks are involved in this administration.

    The DU link for the Q&A thread:

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x86907#87347

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